Episode 8 - Fay Lee (Far Out Solutions)
Fay Lee is the founder of Far Out Solutions, a creative tech studio based in Malaysia that blends immersive storytelling and interactive design with emerging tech to craft impact-driven experiences. Their work explores how extended reality and emotional UX can highlight cultural heritage, build community, and make education more engaging.
In this episode, Fay shares her journey from advertising and film to founding her own design agency. We discuss the importance of empathy in the design process, and how effective UX blends analytics with creative storytelling.
Key Topics:
Career journey: from film & advertising to XR design
Becoming a founder
Designing emotional experiences & Impact-driven campaigns
Balancing emerging tech with creative expression
Partnership with the Malaysian Digital Economic Corporation (MDEC)
Future of XR & Interactive Design
Cultural awareness & expression
XR Women & Diversity in Tech
Learn more about Far Out Solutions & follow their work:
Website: https://www.farout.asia
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/faroutsolutions
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/far-out-solutions
Transcript
Daniel Lipson (00:03) Better Games, Better Gamers is a show where we talk about how games shape and are shaped by the communities and the people around them. So today I am joined by Fay Lee, the founder of Far Out Solutions, a creative tech studio based in Malaysia that blends immersive storytelling and interactive design with emerging tech to craft impact driven experiences. Their work explores how extended reality and emotional UX can highlight cultural heritage, build community, and make education engaging using principles of game design to shape real world behaviors. welcome, welcome, welcome, Fay to the show. I'm excited that we are finally doing this. I'm so to have you here.
Fay Lee (00:41)
Thanks, Danny. It feels like so long since we met in the US already. But yeah, thank you for having me. I'm so excited.
Daniel Lipson (00:49)
to get us started, I wanted to talk a little bit about your favorite game growing up whatever that means to you.
Fay Lee (00:57)
Okay, that's an interesting question because to be honest, I'm not much of a gamer, but I remember very vividly my first experience actually being so immersed in a game was with my dad. he got my sister and I the Crash Bandicoot game and we'd play on the PlayStation for hours and hours. And at that time, growing up,
in Sabah, Malaysia. There's not many households with the PlayStation to begin with, so I just always felt that my dad was the coolest dad for having one. And I remember he had so many different games lying around and he'd always like get my sister and I ones that were more relevant for our age. And we had all these different options as well. And the three of us would be sitting for hours and he'd be helping us navigate through obstacles whenever we get stuck. you know, like that was such a special bond and feeling of being together that we had. what was so special about it was because we were learning how to navigate the challenges together. We were laughing and he'd teach us these tricks I don't really... play games on my own very much. Like I don't wake up feeling like I want to play something today, but only in group settings I still do. But I love that social emotional side of it. And that's probably why I'm drawn to build or design experiences that have that feeling of connection, not just the entertainment aspect, being in a room physically with people or online and talking and, helping navigate through things together. Yeah, that's really special.
Daniel Lipson (02:47)
Specifically with Crash is just one of those games It's so much about the challenge and so much about the overcoming obstacles and learning. So I think it's interesting that you picked that one.
Fay Lee (02:56)
if I remember at that time it was only like single player, you can't even play it together.
Daniel Lipson (03:08)
what inspired you to make, and start working in interactive media and even in art as well?
Fay Lee (03:19)
I actually started out in film production and I've always had an interest in art and design. I'm a self-taught artist and you would find me scribbling, drawing all the time growing up. I guess just this fascination to the arts and particularly movies, the sound design. I used to... just sit in cinemas or watch movies, just listening to how the sound would move through the scene and what really pulls you into the story. eventually I got a job at an audio post house in Kuala Lumpur. And one of those days in the studio, we were listening to a mix of a 360 degree commercial for a car brand. The audio engineer was there, myself as the producer, and my boss at that time were listening and we are checking if all our comments are addressed. Comments from the director, right?
and the director would definitely have a vision of what he wants and it's a car commercial you know. There's not much emotion to it, it's just about the sound of the speed and the sleekness of the car, the components and stuff and we're using sound to design all that, to craft that magic of how people should feel it.
Yeah, we were in the studio, we were just sitting back listening to the sound and my boss, he turned to me and he said like, damn, Fay, VR is really the future. And in that moment, like everything just, it just stuck. we were getting jobs in the 360 commercials department, people were inquiring whether we could do spatial sound beyond just the regular 5.1 cinema surround sound, you know? And it was just like a switch just flipped
we both were just talking and we realized that, wow, storytelling could really evolve. And we are literally right now building worlds that you could step into. It's so different than the conventional commercials or videos in the four walls of your screens. So yeah, that was that moment. And not long after that, yeah, the audio house that I was working in at that time, they branched out to have a tech division and I was put there. And then I learned how to be a XR producer. We started out with doing a lot of commercials for brands and then campaigns and activations around the XR realm basically. And yeah, the rest is history.
Daniel Lipson (06:00)
You touched on your first inspiration in film. I'm curious going back a little bit there on the art of storytelling. What were some of these stories that really captured your imagination early on and that you kind of have taken with you throughout that transition.
Fay Lee (06:23)
it's always been my personality to be a creative person. I've started out with just sketching and drawing like little characters and stuff. And it's so common of me to eventually have little stories from what I was drawing, these little worlds, the characters in it as well. And I remember that when it was time for me to go to uni and college and you know it's that time to choose which path to take. And I told my mom like, I think I want to go to a design school. And I remember she was saying, why? You already know how to draw. Why do you need to go to school for it?
I tried to work my way around it and go for film production and learning the storytelling of doing films, all sorts from music videos to commercials. And eventually, of course, had to learn a bit about advertising and marketing.
Growing up, I've always wanted to be a film director. I wanted to write stories and direct actors. while I was growing up taking different creative roles, whether it be from the film or the audio side of things, I realized that this fascination of directing has always been with me and it's really helped me so much in every kind of role that I'm in. producer to project manager to account manager. that's just how we persuade or help people understand the feeling or what we want them to do basically. I think it's really from wow, me just really loving the movies growing up.
Daniel Lipson (08:11)
if you had to pick a movie that, like, had a huge influence on you, what would be one or a few of them?
Fay Lee (08:19)
one that I've written or have talked a lot about is Fight Club. Yeah, there is others, but that just, yeah, came to mind immediately.
Daniel Lipson (08:32)
So what specifically about Fight Club?
Fay Lee (08:34)
⁓ Fight Club. Wow. The duality of the different personas that come up, the narrator and, you know, the character that you see. So you hear the sounds and it's a juxtapose to what you see in the visuals, right? Yeah, it's such an interesting movie. I love it so much. ⁓ I even wrote a paper about it in uni. But yeah.
Daniel Lipson (08:59)
You talked a little bit about how you made this move from film school and then into the advertising world and then into the world of XR. So how did that move towards Far Out Solutions? What's kind of the story of how that got started?
Fay Lee (09:13)
Working in Kuala Lumpur for the past like eight to nine years, I've had so many friends come up to me saying that, Fay, you should start something of your own. You should, have the guts to do it because we feel that you can. And I don't know, I've always been so scared. one production house or an agency that I have always been following growing up through university is Droga 5 and they are an award-winning creative studio that have produced so many amazing like commercials and contents and when I found out that David Droga, the founder of Droga 5 had joined Accenture Song and Accenture Song was opening up in Malaysia. I thought this was my chance. This was, this is how I could be part of that world. And I was already in the XR world at that time.
I was in it for about four or five years already. And it was just so fitting because Accenture Song, when they opened up here in Malaysia, they were also banking in with a really big XR team here, where they were trying to get Malaysia to be like the hub for innovative or immersive designers in Southeast Asia. So it was really the right time. and I didn't think much of it. I had the opportunity to join and I just, I went right in. And it's so cool because although I'd been in Accenture for
two plus years, I never really got to work directly with the Droga 5 team, but just hearing their case studies circulate within the group, learning about how they approach things and learning from their leaders, just from, you know, being in... my little Accenture bubble at that time was so powerful. And they were as well jumping into more AR and VR immersive type solutions as well. So seeing them evolve while I was, that's just such a nice feeling that I had between like creativity and purpose.
Daniel Lipson (11:32)
And then when you started to kind of build out your client list, what did you really, what was your approach to that? What kind of companies do you want to partner with? How do you kind of make the decisions on like, okay, now I've got this business. How do you start going out and building those relationships?
Fay Lee (11:50)
Hmm. during my time at Accenture, I realized that, wow, I'm doing a lot of sales for this huge.
mega company and maybe it's about time that I could start finding sales and business on my own. so early this year in January, after I resigned, I immediately opened up Farout Solutions with my business partner, Jean, whom I've worked with as well in the past in the XR startup company. We were both working there together. So we knew each other's strengths and weaknesses already. She was from the advertising agency world and technically I was from the tech world and you know combining forces. We knew we could make magic so finding the business and reconnecting with our previous clients or vendors, you know, just like knocking on doors. that's actually the easiest part about what we do. we are usually client facing people anyway in the past companies that we've worked in. So it was, it wasn't the hardest.
The challenge would be convincing them to have the trust to work with us. And it's so delicate because probably half of the doors that I'm knocking on, I've worked with them like many years in the past. And it's like, hey, it's me. You remember me? We worked on this before. hey, guess what? I started my own thing. And I'd love if you could spend some time to hear more about it. And yeah, I guess like out of being nice, usually they would spare me half an hour or so to let me share with them the services that I could offer. I guess that's the fun part, reconnecting with old friends, people in the industry, people we've met along the way.
Daniel Lipson (13:51)
I think specifically the work that Far Out is doing, I really like the phrase emotional UX. I'd like to explain that a little bit though. what exactly do you mean when you say emotional user experiences?
Fay Lee (14:05)
Yeah, when we were starting with Jean and I, when we started getting into tech, we have been doing a lot of projects for brands, campaigns and activations. And usually the objectives are all about driving sales, getting eyeballs, getting engagements, getting footfall to a specific location. And we've been asking ourselves, as we started the company, is this really what we want to do in the next five to 10 years? Like sell things for brands. Maybe we could try to inject a different lens to the work that we do so that not only does it have that top of mind engagement of getting people to remember a certain product or the feeling that you get from using something from a brand.
But right now trying to unlock a certain empathetic experience. being women, women founders, we feel that a lot of the ideas that we give or we propose would not have been so suitable for a man to pitch. And us coming in as women together, coming with a more softer approach, a more deeper one that has more, empathy in general, it's coming along to feel like there's more purpose in the experiences that we're doing. So not just for us, not just creating purpose for us, but also we want the user to feel that what they've just experienced is something that, if possible, changes their lives, changes their behaviors, get them to do something.
Emotional UX, there's just so many facets to it, but... I think on a gamification level, the easiest example that I could think of right now is ⁓ Duolingo. Well, essentially it's a language learning app, right? But combined with all the daily streaks, the community aspect, ⁓ the cute UI with the fire every time you get 100 days or something, ⁓ that emotionally gets you to want to come in and log in and do something. It's not just language anymore. Duolingo created behavior from it, getting people to constantly come back, learn. And yeah, that's just some few gamification techniques that we try not to get users so... engrossed in the game too much, but at least that they're getting to take away something, yeah, that would be beneficial for them.
Daniel Lipson (17:06)
what are some of the specific campaigns and projects you've worked on that you're really proud of?
Fay Lee (17:11)
one that we're really proud of and we just submitted for awards so fingers crossed we get it. It is for Malaysia shipping company called MISC Berhad and we created a projection mapping experience for them whereby it is to basically plant the seed young and tell families that being a seafarer is a viable career choice because it's not something that women generally wake up and, aspire to be like out at sea. It's usually, it is, a male dominated industry.
And our experience was trying to highlight that women can do it too, that there are so many powerful accomplished women right now in Malaysia that are in very high posts. so it was very emotional. I think one of the, you know, the best feelings that we got out of it was when the women seafarers themselves came to the museum where we had the experience and they brought their families
They were just in tears watching it. it wasn't something that a normal interview could have managed to connect. the way that the audio, the sound design, the sound of the storm and how the waves were so big, this couldn't be easily communicated. I felt that it was so powerful. it was so good that what we set out to do, we managed to accomplish. I mean, we didn't do it to make people cry, but we wanted to create that sort of feeling that the trials out at sea are worth living for because yeah, women can see themselves in this position too.
Daniel Lipson (19:05)
what's so interesting about Far Out is this combination of emerging technology and emotional expression and using things like XR and I think also using AI for creative expression. So wanted to hear just a little bit more about how you balance all the advanced technology with that intentionality and drive towards having these types of impacts.
Fay Lee (19:34)
being curious in nature is definitely one thing. We're constantly trying to read up about what is the latest and what is out there that people are using, what are their feedback. with my experience being part of a consultancy firm, which is Accenture, I think that really created this motivation in me to really dive into AI a lot. at that time it was all gen AI. it's not really like the smartest of what you can see now.
So it's always very interesting to keep up and try to inject all sorts of different tech because well, people don't know what they don't know. And it's nice that we can share with them things that we know and see how we could make magic with it together. Yeah.
Daniel Lipson (20:23)
of course marketing is such a metrics driven business. And so just kind of that balance of storytelling and metrics, I think is really interesting.
Fay Lee (20:33)
yeah, we deal a lot with data, KPIs, metrics, and so on. So it's like a no brainer, like whatever experience that we do, we offer data to the client it's such a common, such a common part of our briefs and what the clients expect. Jean and I, we don't come from a technical background. We don't know how to code. We know about tech from the years of experience working in it and managing developers and working with analysts, coming up with solutions together.
So we've kind of learned as we go. At times we feel like it's an information overload because there's so many ways to do things right now. A hundred ways to skin a cat, even like us collecting data and how we want to visually show it to clients. There's just so many platforms that exist now and we don't have to do our own like report or dashboard anymore. Just plug and play different elements.
It's great that we have the support of a tech team that is on the same page as us as being curious and wanting to always know what's the latest and what's the best out there. and this same mindset helps us to move forward because there would be no way Jean and I just like hang around checking out platforms, testing. There was no time for that. Yeah. So whenever that we can get information from our network, people around us, that is like the best way for us to try things out.
Daniel Lipson (22:12)
Well, and speaking of your network, I know when I met you, you were working with the Malaysia Digital Economy Corporation and Immersive Kuala Lumpur. I want to hear just more about that partnership, first of all, kind of how it came about and just how you're kind of continuing to work with them.
Fay Lee (22:28)
that's so nice that you remembered. So, MDEC is such a strong driving force for our XR community here in Malaysia. They frequently invite the different XR companies and founders to different conferences or participate in competitions all around the world. And the other day when we met at Augmented World Expo we were there as delegates for Malaysia.
there to share about the different services and offerings that Malaysia has in the space of XR and eventually with hopes that we could share our resources or find new projects, investors from the expo, but generally they support the community, the tech companies here with grants and all sorts of different other benefits. They're really like friends and we're all like one big family here.
Daniel Lipson (23:22)
And I know you just had an event with them not long ago and you were speaking specifically about women leadership, creativity and emotional impact. since I was not able to be there in person what are some of those lessons in partnership with them that you're really trying to share with people.
Fay Lee (23:41)
Yeah, so the event that they invited us to attend was, it's a culture and arts festival in Penang, which is an island here in Malaysia. And the whole objective of the festival was not just to support the local arts, but also in general, Southeast Asia. So it was nice that we were thought of and MDEC wanted a space for XR companies to basically showcase their work and hopefully will drive more participation or inquiries by people from Penang.
And the turnout was great. We were there for a weekend. We showed some of our work. Aside from me having a spot as a speaker, I guess what MDEC were really supportive with was creating that room for us to network with other people.
They invited so many different creatives that have been around for years, which are, they're so much more experienced than us. And we got to speak to them on a level that not only we were educating them about XR and emerging technologies, but they were educating us about content and as the viewer, the pacing of things, how do we manage the story, the storylines.
Just overall, it was such a nice blend of worlds. And I'm really looking forward to more of these events because it's just, it's not like going for, regular networking and speaking to random people, they actually tell me like who to speak to and of this person is from here. You would, you of all people will want to speak to this guy. He's the director. Yeah, so they know me, and they know the work that we do and yeah, it's nice.
Daniel Lipson (25:36)
Yeah, so what are you most excited about for immersive storytelling and where do you see immersive storytelling and UX going in the future?
Fay Lee (25:45)
I'm hoping to see that the next era of gaming and interactive design to not just be about immersion. So not just the beautiful things, the beautiful sounds and so on, but something that can allow us to. Rehearse something for the real world. let me try to break it down. what would be so powerful to me if there were an experience that could lead me to do things for, like do good, And it could be anything like getting a star for taking the train or riding the bus or, recycling, but.
I'm finding as I'm doing more UX design and discovering more of these different type of ways that we could create experiences. I'm realizing that actually we can train empathy as much as we can train our reflexes. That is something that I feel people have been trying to do already in certain ways game designers create their character personas to really connect with the users. But I think if we can design something that has that sustainability or rather like a representation that really allows us to relate, it's something that we could create that has real world impact.
Daniel Lipson (27:17)
I'm sure a lot of people listening to this like me have never been to Malaysia, do not know a lot about Malaysia. So, a lot of these stories do have this cultural element. how do you bring that into this storytelling and connect that with the technology.
Fay Lee (27:32)
At Far Out, empathy really starts before we think about the solution. So we always begin by understanding who the experience is for and what they're supposed to carry. So not just their behaviors, but their lived realities, their generational knowledge, cultural context, emotional triggers. If we don't know that, then we're designing in a vacuum, right?
So for our project for the Malaysian shipping company, we spent hours and hours listening to interviews with women seafarers. We were just sitting in trying to absorb the tone, not just the answers, but the silences. the way their voice shakes between the lines, that sort of thing. And that emotional truth, hearing it again and again and again, that's what really helped us because we're not seafarers. We've never lived out at sea. We wouldn't be able to map these moments unless we hear it directly from them. So the goal isn't just to be super interactive and get as much dwell time or engagement, but it's just really what you want people to feel after the experience is over.
Daniel Lipson (28:50)
So I heard that there was a very prominent figure from the United States that was in Malaysia this weekend. My question though is, if you could show this certain prominent figure. one of your campaigns which of those would you choose and why?
Fay Lee (29:06)
Wow. What a question. Well, seeing as how this user isn't really like the best at change. I think my idea about, you know, we're not just building cool tech, we're designing new behaviors, new habits. I don't think it would really stick with him. So in terms of an XR experience, maybe he could use it for onboarding?
Daniel Lipson (29:33)
if there was one thing that you wanted to share with him about Malaysia through the work that you've done or the work that you've seen What would be the story and maybe something that you've done or something that you've seen this is what you should understand about this culture and how could that experience maybe make an impact?
Fay Lee (29:51)
People say that the best way to get people, like shake them up is like to scare them with the truth, you know, show him the hunger, the displacement people have here, like they don't even have basic access to water or education, you know. But because at Far Out, we are quite tasteful. I think that we could allow him to experience the culture, diverse culture that we have and the beauty of it.
There were some videos that I saw immediately when he landed from his private plane. Of course, Malaysia they pulled all the different dancers in wearing the beautiful cultural outfits and we have so many different backgrounds here so you just see like a sea of colorful traditional clothing so intricate even with head pieces and so on and he was dancing with them too.
Southeast Asia the beauty of it is the culture and there's no way there's no other way to show it than actually seeing it for yourself seeing the different tribes seeing the different dances. I think he had a nice view of that the minute he arrived.
Daniel Lipson (31:04)
So, what are some other things you enjoy outside of work and XR?
Fay Lee (31:10)
I have a lot of hobbies there. I like doing a lot of things. I like gardening. I like making things pretty, making pretty things. I'm always keeping myself busy. Just this type of person. I don't know how to really lay around. I'm always trying to think or do something. I guess it would be mostly just hanging out with my friends, being in my community.
Daniel Lipson (31:32)
actually that's something that we didn't touch on obviously we've talked a little bit about Jean, but can you talk about some of the people that got you to where you are and who you've worked with and any anyone that you'd want to shout out
Fay Lee (31:42)
I have been blessed to work with so many incredible bosses that really knew my weaknesses and how to build or create a better character in me. And particularly, one of my first bosses ever, Jessica Lim, shout out, was when I was working at Red Bull Malaysia and she really taught me about how to be disciplined and how to be just a smart girl in general. And she's such a force of nature.
She is what we call here in Malaysia, a chili buddy, which is a spicy tiny chili. You know, the smaller it is, the spicier it is. Yes. So that is the word I will use for her.
Yeah, she is amazing. The times that she's made me cry and how she just shows me so much love. It's when I reflect back, it's not passive aggressive at all. It was just her being real and in her own way, teaching me how to be a better human being and a woman. Yeah. So I'm just so blessed and so many other bosses after that, my colleagues, people that I've worked with that have made such an impression in my life and I always try to take away something from people. as an employee, you get paid to learn, right? So make the most of it.
Daniel Lipson (33:05)
one of my big takeaways from Augmented World Expo was like, there's a bunch of these really cool women in XR. there are some of them coming by the booth and like these students from the other side of the US. And I was like, these people are really, really talented I am trying to pick your brain still about that talk and your experiences and vision and how you're pushing that forward.
Fay Lee (33:30)
When people say that Jean and I are women in tech, it just feels so overwhelming to hear this out loud. I still can't grasp it until today. I've shared it already. I don't play games. I don't code. How can I be in tech, you know? But I've been in it for almost 10 years now to believe it.
It's still very overwhelming, but I enjoy it. I love speaking to all sorts of different type of roles, whether you're a designer, an animator, a developer. Constantly learning from one another is something that we try to do because, yeah, we don't know a lot of things. It's great if people can share with us and we can learn from them directly rather than going online and learning about it ourselves. So we're building connections as we learn. it's so fun. Yeah.
The people that we've met along the way, yourself included, the stories that we've exchanged and the different worldviews about how our approach is in tech and how we can make money from it. That's something that I would love to hear more people speak about it and speak about in conversations. We have to normalize it, normalize how we talk about budgets and charging clients, being open about sharing these insights that we gather from different industry clients So part of being woman in tech is just knowing that you don't know everything and you are there to learn.
Daniel Lipson (35:06)
we've talked previously about pitching, one of the previous episodes I was talking about, a documentary, Resting Pitch Face by Shelby Moledina. And it's this story about how women are often underestimated in these male-dominated spaces. how do you stay confident when you are sometimes in, like you said, These are often male dominated spaces.
Fay Lee (35:27)
What helps me be confident is if I know what I'm talking about. I have to understand it and I would go through like potential questions that would be asked. I would really put myself in their shoes and see what they would want out of this meeting with Lil Old Me and what they want to take away out of it. If I'm really covered in all those aspects, that's when I can pitch and really feel my most confidence.
Daniel Lipson (35:56)
So we talked about what games you got started with, What are you watching right now? What are you listening to?
Fay Lee (36:03)
rewatching House, House MD. Yep, medical dramas. Gotta love them. And what am I listening to?
Fay Lee (36:12)
I have this CD in my car that is Pink Floyd. So when you're in my car, you only listen to Pink Floyd. That's the only CD in there because you can't eject it. Yeah.
Daniel Lipson (36:24)
where can people learn more about you, your work, how to work, how can people work with you, can people work with you?
Fay Lee (36:32)
Yes, absolutely, follow Far Out Solutions That's where you can just follow all the new work that we're doing. And yeah, what's been happening here in Malaysia.
Daniel Lipson (36:43)
Awesome, well thank you so much for this and everything. This was so much fun.
Fay Lee (36:49)
It was so much fun.